Автор Тема: Демонстрация  (Прочитано 7857 раз)

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Оффлайн ak

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Демонстрация
« : 03 Июля 2003 22:47:05 »
Товарищи гонконгцы! Как там прошла недавняя демонстрация против ущемления прав человека в свете выхода Закона о подрывной деятельности?

SARS_VICTIM

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Re: Демонстрация
« Ответ #1 : 04 Июля 2003 06:51:50 »
ТовариЩ!
Не задавайте на форуме такие вопросы!
А то Ваш IP господа модераторы передадут китайским органам безопасности.

Оффлайн Андрей Отмахов

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Re: Демонстрация
« Ответ #2 : 04 Июля 2003 06:58:29 »
Но-но, попрошу Вас Уважаемый! ;)

Мы еще пока независимый форум и кроме того на нейтральной европейской территории (и не пугайте народ зазря!)  ;)


ТовариЩ!
Не задавайте на форуме такие вопросы!
А то Ваш IP господа модераторы передадут китайским органам безопасности.

Man muss keine Abzeichen tragen, um Ehre zu besitzen! (Eine Frage der Ehre)
You dont need a patch on your arm to have honor! (A Few Good Men)

Оффлайн B M

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Re: Демонстрация
« Ответ #3 : 10 Июля 2003 23:58:09 »
Вот что пишут о гонконгских демонстрациях на ВВСях:
Analysis: China's concern at HK protests
By Virginia Gidley-Kitchin
Wednesday, 9 July, 2003, 17:38 GMT
Thousands of people in Hong Kong have demonstrated again, calling for the government to scrap a controversial security bill. They say it would erode the territory's political freedom and curb free speech. Last week, 500,000 people marched through Hong Kong in the biggest anti-government demonstrations since the territory was handed back to China in 1997.
It is Hong Kong's second mass protest in just over a week. And what began as opposition to a tough new bill that would outlaw subversion, sedition, treason and other crimes against the state is fast turning into a full-blown political crisis. Banners calling for the resignation of the Chief Executive, Tung Chee-Hwa, have been accompanied by others demanding nothing less than democracy for Hong Kong. Speaking shortly before Wednesday's protest began, Mr Tung admitted that his administration faced huge challenges, but expressed confidence that it could cope. "We will learn from experience. We will respond to the aspirations of our citizens and we will take actions to allay public dissatisfaction and improve the effectiveness of the government," Mr Tung said. "Our goal is clear: it is to win back the support and the trust of the people."

Unprecedented climb down
The rally marks the day that Mr Tung had planned to put the anti-subversion bill to a vote in the Hong Kong legislature. But on Monday - after the desertion of a key ally jeopardised the bill's passage - Mr Tung announced that the vote would now be put off. It was a stunning climb down for a man who has rarely appeared to need to take public opinion into account. But it did not go far enough for Richard Tsoi, spokesman for the Civil Human Rights Front, the group behind the protests, who wants the government to give up the bill completely, despite the fact that Hong Kong is obliged under the terms of its handover to China to pass national security legislation. "The Hong Kong Government is just deferring Article 23 (the security bill). But it has not abandoned the bill entirely," he said. "Basically, it is still under the legislative process. So, I think it is still a threat to the liberty and rights of the Hong Kong people". Last week, opposition to the bill resulted in a demonstration by half a million people, a huge figure given that Hong Kong's entire population is only seven million. It marked the largest political protest since the territory's return to China in 1997. Peter Wong, a Hong Kong businessman who is also a deputy of the National People's Congress in Beijing, says he thinks that the security bill served as the lightning rod for what were essentially economic grievances. "The people on the street the other day were responding to the accumulated dissatisfactions with the economic environment. Because, with growing unemployment, and the fact that a lot of people have their assets depreciated to a negative value, this anti-subversion law is just a mechanism to get the crowd out".

Many grievances
Anger over Hong Kong's ailing economy and perceptions that the government mishandled the Sars crisis may well have contributed to the size of last week's protest. But it was staged on the sixth anniversary of the former British colony's return to Chinese rule, and others see the protest as reflecting dissatisfaction with the Mr Tung's leadership and even the political system overall. Christine Loh, a former member of the Legislative Council who now runs an independent think-tank called Civic Exchange, says there are real questions now about whether Tung Chee-Hwa should resign. "There's a lot of talk now about a possible cabinet reshuffle, and moreover whether the Chief Executive himself needs to step down," she said. "This really throws everything into uncertainty because neither China nor Hong Kong has ever been at this place before. I mean, nobody ever anticipated that a Chief Executive may not serve out his full term and everybody is now quickly examining our constitution - called the Basic Law - to see how that might need to play out". Under the terms of its handover to Chinese rule, Hong Kong was supposed to be able to preserve its political freedoms for 50 years. But critics of the government say these have already been eroded, and the security bill would have been particularly damaging.

Unexpected protest
Mr Tung was widely believed to have been acting under pressure from Beijing to introduce it. So what has Beijing had to say about this? For surely, if one thing worries China's leaders more than having a lot of people out on the streets protesting, it's letting them believe that's the way to get their leaders to change their minds? Christine Loh says Beijing was completely thrown that this could happen. "Hong Kong now has a very different political landscape. Beijing is wise not to have said anything definitive so far," she said. "Obviously it must be considering all possible options. Whether Mr Tung is going to stay? And if he's going to stay, can he really tough it out? Can you just live with a cabinet reshuffle? Or has Mr Tung lost so much credibility that he's really unable to govern and therefore you really need to replace him? But nobody's been at this point before". Allan Lee, a member of China's parliament (the National People's Congress), is also host of a popular radio show in Hong Kong. He agrees that Beijing is deeply concerned about the situation in the territory. "Beijing is very worried about three aspects," he says. "First, about Mr Tung himself. He underestimated the number of people who would be marching on the streets against the government and National Security Bill. "Secondly, what is going to happen in four years' time, whether Hong Kong is moving towards a full democracy or not. The Hong Kong people certainly are calling for that: free election of the Chief Executive in 2007. "And thirdly, Beijing is very worried about Taiwan. This one-country-two-systems (whereby Hong Kong returned to Chinese rule but retained its political freedoms) is setting an example for the recovery of the sovereignty of Taiwan (which Beijing regards as a renegade province). And this has set it back manyfold". Beijing's problem is that permitting greater democracy in Hong Kong might help to woo Taiwan, but might fuel demands for similar privileges in mainland China. These are exciting times for a territory which has traditionally put money-making before politics. But Beijing may feel it cannot afford to be seen to make concessions to people power.
« Le style, c'est l'homme même»  Buffon

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Демонстрация
« Ответ #4 : 11 Июля 2003 21:05:45 »
Вот что пишут о гонконгских демонстрациях на ВВСях:


Спасибо, но то что пишут - читаем, а хотелось бы послушать непосредственных участников событий.

А Тунга зря в газетах перемалывают - он ведь ничего не решает  :D


Оффлайн B M

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Re: Демонстрация
« Ответ #5 : 15 Июля 2003 20:52:13 »
А гонконгские демонстрации интересным образом аукаются на Тайване. Хотя и вполне предсказуемо:

BBC, Tuesday, 15 July, 2003, 00:28 GMT
HK unrest fans Taiwan fears
By Tim Culpan
Protests in Hong Kong over Article 23 have prompted further denouncement by Taiwan's leadership of China's "one country, two systems" model, and emboldened plans for a referendum law. Leaders in Taipei this past week have used opposition in Hong Kong to anti-subversion laws to illustrate the differences between Taiwan and the former British colony, and have pointed to the need for safeguards on Taiwanese freedoms. Most recently, Taiwan Foreign Minister Eugene Chien said that judging by the Hong Kong experience, China can't be trusted with the "one country, two systems" model. "How could the international community believe that Beijing would settle its territorial disputes with Taipei in a peaceful manner if it could randomly scrap its guarantee of maintaining Hong Kong's free-wheeling economy for 50 years," Mr Chien told a seminar on Sunday. Mr Chien warned that the past six years since the handover to Chinese rule have seen Hong Kong's freedoms continually undermined. "Once Article 23 is approved by the legislature, Hong Kong's freedoms will be further restricted, and the free sentiment which has prevailed Hong Kong's market economy, will vanish," Mr Chien said. The vice-chairman of Taiwan's cross-strait policy body has expressed support for the plight of the Hong Kong people. "We really take a sympathetic view toward this demonstration of the Hong Kongese people, especially as we are a democratic state and also a liberal and open society," Chen Ming-tong, Vice-Chairman of the Mainland Affairs Council told the Taipei Correspondents' Club. The Taiwan Government is also trying to use the Hong Kong experience as leverage in its fight for the passing of a referendum law. With presidential elections just eight months away, President Chen Shui-bian is trying to draw attention away from the ailing economy and focus back on cross-strait relations. To that end, he's begun an earnest campaign to pass a new referendum law that will allow a national vote on key policy issues. Mr Chen's Democratic Progressive Party failed last Thursday to pass a draft of the law during a violent session of the island's legislature. The move towards holding a referendum, which picked up steam last month, has been viewed with suspicion and caution not only by Beijing, but by Taiwan allies such as the US and Japan.
'Independence push'
The referendum law is seen by analysts as a veiled move toward independence, a view denied by the government. "The government's position under Chen Shui-bian is very cautious of the push in the direction of [determining] national status," said Deputy Foreign Minister Michael Gau. Instead, the DPP proposes holding referenda on three major policy issues, namely the completion of the island's fourth nuclear power plant, entry into the World Health Organization, and a reduction in the number of legislators. To add weight to their argument, pro-referendum campaigners are pointing to Hong Kong as a reason why Taiwan needs people-power written into law. According to the government, 55-60% of Taiwanese are in favour of passing a referendum law. Under the DPP's proposal draft of the law, the president would also be able to call a referendum on Taiwan's status, "when the country is threatened by outside forces". While maintaining that the referendum proposal is purely a public policy tool, the government concedes it has Beijing in mind. "Is it something to do with China? Yes, certainly it is," said Joseph Wu, deputy secretary-general of the presidential office. "The reason why we want the referendum... is for public policy issues. But when the referendum law is there, then we might be able to do something else," he said. "Is it the DPP's intention to use it to vote on national status? I say no," he added. Defiant in the face of last week's legislative defeat, the president has pledged to push ahead with a referendum on or before the next election, even if a law is not passed at the legislature's next session. Even without the referendum law, said Mr Wu, the president can simply issue an executive decree to hold a referendum.
« Le style, c'est l'homme même»  Buffon

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Re: Демонстрация
« Ответ #6 : 15 Июля 2003 21:08:30 »
А гонконгские демонстрации интересным образом аукаются на Тайване. Хотя и вполне предсказуемо.

ага, особенно учитывая богатейший "демократический" опыт самого Тайваня....   :D)
Сами мы не местные... http://www.russianbeijing.com

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Re: Демонстрация
« Ответ #7 : 17 Июля 2003 20:48:10 »
Спасибо, но то что пишут - читаем, а хотелось бы послушать непосредственных участников событий.


Вот, кстати, сегодня отобедал с непосредственным участником демонстрации. Пытал его по-всякому, ничего нового, "интересненького" не узнал. Все то же, что пишут в газетах.
Разве что, он очень гордился тем, как мирно прошла демонстрация, учитывая количество участников и узкие улочки Гонкога. "Не какие-нибудь там корейцы! Мы, гонконгцы, оченно культурно-образованные люди!... " добавлял он при этом...  :)
Сами мы не местные... http://www.russianbeijing.com

Gwanlo

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Re: ???
« Ответ #8 : 12 Августа 2003 01:42:36 »
Вечером 1 июля я вернулся домои в Гонконг ис Qингдао. Когда приехал из Каи Така на Хонг Конг Статион, бросилас в глаза огромная очередь на тахи и их полное отсутствие. В ето время радио проговорило самое странное обьявление, котороые я когда либо слышал:        
Дуе то тхе оверцроwдинг оф оур сыстем, wе аре имплементинг тхе траффиц цонтрол програм ат оур статион. Тханк ыоу .. анд сорры фор инцонвениенце"..
Пока  очередь из приежих ждала тахи и пыталас понят траффиц цонтрол по Гонконгскы, я поднялся на лифте два етажа и спокоино уехал оттуда через 5 минут - без очереди и на тахи.
Через полчаса я узнал от Брамбеуса о прошедшеи демонстразии и что ни в какое сравнение с маевками антиглобалистов она не идет. Все было по-гонконгскы организованно, дружелубно и всем было жарко.
А рыбаки с Ченг Чау приплыли на своих сампанах прямо в Викториа Хоабоур и в пику заряшим себя на солнзе демонстрантам развернули плакаты в поддержку Тунга и Пекина.
Когда мы добралис до ресторана на СОХО и заказали рыбу, я подумал, что рыбаки правы.